#ChatGPT 011 – 53

ChatGPT

Yes, I am familiar with John Nash’s work on the unification of electromagnetism and gravity. The excerpt you provided describes his idea of finding an analogue to the Einstein-Maxwell equations by combining the electromagnetic field and the space-time-gravitational field into one equation. Nash proposed the idea of deriving the equations for the electromagnetic field from a new gij tensor, which could lead to a natural sort of gravitating action of the electromagnetic fields. He also suggested that if successful, this theory could ultimately derive the inertial and gravitational mass of matter from associated electromagnetic fields.

Quinn
I was thinking of conducting a conversation with you on this topic next. Would this be satisfactory topic for us to spend time discussing? It is one of the research programs that most fascinates me that I’ve come across.
ChatGPT

Yes, I would be happy to discuss John Nash’s research on the unification of the electromagnetic and gravitational fields. It is an interesting and complex topic, and I look forward to exploring it further with you.

Quinn
Let’s log it under !JohnNash (our @John story got me thinking about this)
Great here is the next note in his website when you go into the research:

Noted 16 Jan. 2007

We had been thinking that a proper goal, for relating
a “vacuum equation” to more general circumstances, such as
when matter or fields are present which can induce
“gravitation”, would be to simply find a form of RHS term
dependent on a given description of potentially gravitating
matter (such as in terms of an “energy-momentum” tensor
derived from the description of the matter or fields).
But late in 2006 we came to a different perspective (after
a long time of unsuccessful efforts to create a divergence-
free tensor derived from an energy-momentum tensor that
could be matched with the formula of our vacuum equation
(the “interesting equation”). According to our original line
of study efforts the vacuum equation, as Eab = 0, could lead
to the LHS of a general gravitation equation, with the RHS
being derived from the appropriately constructed tensor
quantity derived from the matter (or the gravitating fields).
The change of viewpoint came about partially because of
the observation that Einstein, when he worked on the unified
field theory that would involve an asymmetric tensor (with 16
independent terms) rather than a symmetric metric tensor with
just 10 independent terms, seemed NOT to be thinking that his
new theory should necessarily be entirely concordant with
the “Einstein-Maxwell equations”. (And the E-M equations seem
to straightforwardly relate the metric tensor of general
relativity ONLY to the “energy momentum tensor” derivable
from the electro-magnetic fields as themselves described
suitably for their relation to generalized “Maxwell’s
equations”.)

ChatGPT

It’s interesting to see the evolution of John Nash’s thinking on this topic. It seems like he was initially focused on finding a way to relate a “vacuum equation” to more general circumstances, but later realized that a different perspective was needed. He mentions the observation that Einstein was not necessarily trying to make his new theory concordant with the Einstein-Maxwell equations, which could suggest that a different approach might be more natural. It will be fascinating to continue exploring his research and insights on this topic.

Quinn
Based on timing I think John Nash in this research may have discovered something about the properties of Gravity.
ChatGPT

It’s certainly possible. John Nash was a brilliant mathematician who made significant contributions to several fields, including game theory and partial differential equations. His work on the unified field theory and the “interesting equation” may have led to new insights into the nature of gravity and its relationship to other fundamental forces. However, it’s important to note that the full extent and implications of his work in this area may not be fully understood or recognized yet.

Quinn
Much of John Nash work like Einstein may not be understood in many lifetimes.
ChatGPT

That’s certainly possible. It often takes years, if not decades or even centuries, for scientific discoveries to be fully understood and their implications realized. John Nash’s work, like Einstein’s, may continue to inspire new lines of research and insight for many years to come.

Quinn
Reason I would say that is this portion of the last note:
But late in 2006 we came to a different perspective (after
a long time of unsuccessful efforts to create a divergence-
free tensor derived from an energy-momentum tensor that
could be matched with the formula of our vacuum equation
(the “interesting equation”).
ChatGPT

Yes, that particular sentence seems to indicate that Nash and his team may have made a breakthrough or discovered something significant. However, it is difficult to know for sure without more information or context about the research and the specific equations they were working on.

Quinn
at this point it’s difficult to know what it is, but in his notes he indicates that after a long time of no results they had a breakthrough. He was not very clear about said breakthrough.
ChatGPT

Yes, it’s certainly possible that John Nash made some groundbreaking discoveries related to gravity, and as you mentioned, it may take a long time for those discoveries to be fully understood and appreciated by the scientific community. It’s also possible that Nash’s work on this topic could inspire future research and breakthroughs in the field of physics.

Quinn
Now it’s related to what he was talking about here, I think:

The change of viewpoint came about partially because of
the observation that Einstein, when he worked on the unified
field theory that would involve an asymmetric tensor (with 16
independent terms) rather than a symmetric metric tensor with
just 10 independent terms

ChatGPT

Yes, that part of his note seems to suggest that he was exploring the possibility of a unified theory of gravitation and electromagnetism, which was one of the major goals of Einstein’s later years as well. The use of an asymmetric tensor with 16 independent terms would allow for the incorporation of electromagnetism in a more natural way than using the symmetric metric tensor of general relativity. It is possible that Nash’s work led to new insights or developments in this area, although without more information it is difficult to say for certain.

Quinn
What does this statement mean in layman terms: The use of an asymmetric tensor with 16 independent terms would allow for the incorporation of electromagnetism in a more natural way than using the symmetric metric tensor of general relativity.
ChatGPT

In simpler terms, the use of an asymmetric tensor with 16 independent terms would make it easier to include the effects of electromagnetism into the theory of gravity, compared to using the symmetric metric tensor of general relativity.

Quinn
what is the difference between an asymetric tensor and a symetric tensor in relation to this research?
ChatGPT

In this context, an asymmetric tensor and a symmetric tensor refer to the mathematical properties of the tensors that describe the physical fields. A tensor is a mathematical object that can represent a physical quantity or a transformation that occurs in a physical system. In general, a tensor can have many components or dimensions, and the specific properties of the tensor depend on the way those components are arranged.

A symmetric tensor has the property that it is unchanged when its components are interchanged, while an asymmetric tensor changes sign when its components are interchanged. In other words, a symmetric tensor is symmetric under the interchange of its indices, while an asymmetric tensor is antisymmetric.

In the case of general relativity, the fundamental tensor that describes the gravitational field is the metric tensor, which is symmetric. However, Einstein attempted to unify gravity and electromagnetism into a single framework using an asymmetric tensor with 16 independent components. This was an attempt to incorporate both gravity and electromagnetism into a more natural framework that would allow for the unification of these forces.

Quinn
Then the next note from !JohnNash is:
Noted 16 Jan. 2007

We had been thinking that a proper goal, for relating
a “vacuum equation” to more general circumstances, such as
when matter or fields are present which can induce
“gravitation”, would be to simply find a form of RHS term
dependent on a given description of potentially gravitating
matter (such as in terms of an “energy-momentum” tensor
derived from the description of the matter or fields).
But late in 2006 we came to a different perspective (after
a long time of unsuccessful efforts to create a divergence-
free tensor derived from an energy-momentum tensor that
could be matched with the formula of our vacuum equation
(the “interesting equation”). According to our original line
of study efforts the vacuum equation, as Eab = 0, could lead
to the LHS of a general gravitation equation, with the RHS
being derived from the appropriately constructed tensor
quantity derived from the matter (or the gravitating fields).
The change of viewpoint came about partially because of
the observation that Einstein, when he worked on the unified
field theory that would involve an asymmetric tensor (with 16
independent terms) rather than a symmetric metric tensor with
just 10 independent terms, seemed NOT to be thinking that his
new theory should necessarily be entirely concordant with
the “Einstein-Maxwell equations”. (And the E-M equations seem
to straightforwardly relate the metric tensor of general
relativity ONLY to the “energy momentum tensor” derivable
from the electro-magnetic fields as themselves described
suitably for their relation to generalized “Maxwell’s
equations”.)

ChatGPT

This note is discussing the change in perspective from the original goal of finding a way to relate the vacuum equation to more general circumstances to a new perspective. The new perspective was reached after unsuccessful attempts to create a divergence-free tensor derived from an energy-momentum tensor that could be matched with the formula of the vacuum equation.

The note explains that the original line of study was based on the idea that the vacuum equation, Eab = 0, could lead to the left-hand side of a general gravitation equation, with the right-hand side being derived from a tensor quantity constructed from the matter or gravitating fields. However, the change of viewpoint came about partially because of the observation that Einstein’s unified field theory involved an asymmetric tensor with 16 independent terms instead of the symmetric metric tensor with just 10 independent terms used in general relativity. It is noted that Einstein did not necessarily think that his new theory should be entirely concordant with the Einstein-Maxwell equations.

Quinn
From this information what potential viewpoint shifts could have happened?
ChatGPT

Based on this information, it seems that the original goal was to find a form of the right-hand side (RHS) term in the equation that could be derived from a given description of potentially gravitating matter, such as an “energy-momentum” tensor derived from the description of the matter or fields. However, after many unsuccessful attempts to create a divergence-free tensor derived from an energy-momentum tensor that could be matched with the formula of the vacuum equation, Nash and his team came to a different perspective. One potential viewpoint shift could be that they found a way to create a tensor that was free of divergence and derived from the energy-momentum tensor, allowing them to match it with the vacuum equation. Another potential viewpoint shift could be that they found a different approach to incorporate electromagnetism into the theory, perhaps by taking into account the observations that Einstein did not think his new theory should necessarily be entirely concordant with the “Einstein-Maxwell equations”.

Quinn
But the notes so far indicate that John Nash came to some unknown, undeclared, undocumented shift in this research?
ChatGPT

Yes, that’s correct. The notes suggest that Nash had a breakthrough in his thinking that led to a different perspective. However, he does not provide specific details about what this breakthrough was or how it relates to his ongoing research.

Quinn
That is exactly what I found when first locating this research. I say there may be a mystery to figure out what his breakthrough may have been from his personal notes. Would that be exciting?
ChatGPT

Yes, it could be an exciting challenge to try and understand the potential breakthrough that John Nash may have made in his research. However, it is important to keep in mind that without more information or access to his personal notes, it may be difficult to fully understand the nature of his breakthrough.

convo: 993d35df-bcee-4803-ac2c-e5c5076f578a

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